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My Conversation with Kevin Smith

LindaRutherford
Employee
Employee

I had the chance this afternoon to speak directly with director Kevin Smith. I let him know that in my 18 years here at Southwest, I have never dealt with a situation like what has been unfolding in the last 48 hours. I let Kevin know we have refunded his airfare. I told him we made a mistake in trying to board him as a standby passenger and then remove him. And I told him we were sorry.

 

 

Now, 48 hours later, after talking to many involved, we know there were several things going on that day and that our Employees were doing their best to get his flight out safely and on time, including finding seats for everyone and trying to accommodate standby passengers. The Captain did not single Kevin out to be removed, but he did ask that the boarding be completed quickly. At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him. 

 

 

Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made, I can tell you that I for one have learned a lot today. The communication among our Employees was not as sharp as it should have been and, it’s apparent that Southwest could have handled this situation differently. Thanks, Kevin, for your passion around this topic. You were a reasonable guy during our conversation.

 

 

Southwest, like most carriers, has a policy to assist passengers who need two seats onboard an aircraft. The policy is an important one for the comfort and safety of all passengers aboard a plane, and we stand by that 25-year-old policy. This has our attention, and we will be reviewing how and when this delicate policy is implemented.

1,803 Comments
notyourpunching
Explorer C
All you mouth breathers that keep patting SWA on the back? How about actually getting the core facts straight? They ejected someone that should NOT have been ejected - BY THEIR OWN PUBLISHED STANDARDS. They EXTORT MONEY FROM FAT PEOPLE. This is the story. Keep whining about fatties inconveniencing you, and expose yourselves for the douche bags everyone NOW knows you are.
Anonymous4137
Explorer C
This is a classic non-apology. What you can do is to not kick people off a flight who fit into a seat just fine. You can also punish the employee who made the decision to toss him off the plane--we haven't heard anything about that guy or gal. What will happen to them for their decision to humiliate a passenger needlessly?
Wild_Dan
Explorer C
"Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made... " Well then, in all due respect you shouldn't have posted this. It's Smith's point that the decision was WRONG, and that he was well within your OWN limits. If you're just here to make a boilerplate PR excuse, then it's a waste of time. Very insincere, and mostly an attempt at damage control ONLY because you messed with a famous person who won't stop talking about your company's poor policies and decision-making (which you won't "debate"). Please, the corporate ass-covering is so transparent here.
erin
Explorer C
Dear Southwest Airlines, Sometimes a person and/or a society can only take so much of something and then there is something that becomes "the straw that broke the camel's back"! I'm 33, female - and hate to admit this, but I'm overweight...fat...**insert whatever term you like** I don't think you could ever realize how sensitive an issue this is for a person that has been dealing with these issues all their lives. I believe if there are rules in a certain weight and the number of seats involved then there should be SOME SENSITIVITY TRAINING IN HOW TO HANDLE SAID RULES!!! It's like a woman being around crude jokes, gay people being singled out and called nasty names, men being objectivified.... there are all kinds of discrimination. It has nothing to do with whether or not a person has or NEEDS 2 seats. It has to do with that person being allowed on the plane and then removed in front of 200+ people. For me, that is a moment I would die of embarrassment from. My heart broke hearing about the woman that flew with Mr. Smith's flight home that had it sugested that she purchase 2 seats in the future. There has to be a better way of addressing this. Let's face it people.... flying in a plane is not comfortable. Also, let me address - you may not like sitting next to me on a plane, but maybe you smell - my point...we all have issues and if you smelled I don't think it right for you to be called out on a plane full of people....or possibly moved. This issue is very sensitive to me. It had never really crossed my mind, but glad my attention was brought to it. I would be the unknowing woman getting pulled from the plane. I can fit in the seat and all - who makes the judgement of who is too fat for their plane. I suppose next Southwest Airlines will have us take off our shoes and jump on a scale while we're at it!!! Seriously, I feel like that's where we are. Frankly, unless a different statement is released from Southwest than the one I just read - I won't be flying Southwest anymore! It's the principle people!! It's customer service and common sense. Maybe people like me do need 2 seats, but have a little respect for how you handle the matter and if more than 1 person let me on the plane - I should have passed your TOO FAT TO FLY test!!! Awful - just awful!! Shame on you Southwest Airlines and shame on all the people complaining about having to sit next to overweight people. People are people.... people have feelings and should be treated according!! I guess this is big business and who cares about people's feelings. It's not about getting money back - you can't take back a moment like that - it's there - like a scar.... horrible
Anonymous3933
Explorer C
Southwest has taken it upon itself to declare war on fat people and tell them they're not wanted- unless they buy extra seats. It's a bold move, let's see how it plays out. Anyone who is overweight risks being forced to buy an extra seat if you fly Southwest. Because Kevin Smith could clearly fit in his seat, with both armrests down, and use the seat belt (with no extender), and the people on either side of him didn't have a problem with him sitting there. So I guess the standard is not if you spill over into other seats- it's solely at the discretion at Southwest employees. I for one am not willing to risk the public humiliation. I'm pretty sure I could fit but I'm around 20 lbs overweight- who wants some po'd employee deciding if I get to fly or not. I don't need that aggravation. Sorry Southwest, you've lost a customer.
Eric_R1
Explorer C
I am in full support of Southwest on this issue and it's policy towards large passengers. I fly many, many miles a year and have experienced on too many occasions having to fly next to a passenger that encroached upon my seat. Go Southwest!
Anonymous1046
Explorer C
I am calling Shenanigans on SW. SW, as we all know, is a glorified bus service. Smith can afford to pay extra money to be comfortable. And then, because he chooses to buy a second seat, has that used against as though he has been told that he had to purchase the seat. I think if he had been not offered the seat to begin with, there would have been no trouble. It was the public shaming of him (and the woman on his later flight) that got him pissed. At this point, people are so afraid to challenge anyone in the airlines, the staff gets away with obnoxious behavior - and it is not just SW (though it appears they are very high on the list). Suzanne handled this very poorly, and rather than blaming the customer for the lack of customer service, SW should look in the mirror and adjust its policies. I understand the concern for other customers - but a little forethought on how your policy is implemented would prevent these types of fiascoes in the future.
Eric_R1
Explorer C
I am in full support of Southwest on this issue and it's policy towards large passengers. I fly many, many miles a year and have experienced on to many occasions having to fly next to a passenger that encroached upon my seat. Go Southwest!
Eric_R1
Explorer C
I am in full support of Southwest on this issue and it's policy towards large passengers. I fly many, many miles a year and have experienced on too many occasions having to fly next to a passenger that encroached upon my seat. Go Southwest!
Ian_Muir
Explorer C
The biggest problem with this rule is that it's discretionary. If we knew before hand what to expect, we could be better prepared to deal with this. While I would like to think the crew was trying to make the best decision, Kevin took several photos of himself sitting in the seat just fine. Can we get an estimated weight or BMI? Maybe a waist size? Any type of guideline? I can't imagine any other industry getting away with denying service after the customer has already paid based on an arbitrary ruling from a flustered flight attendent.
Anonymous4271
Explorer C
Perhaps Southwest should adjust their 25 year old policy. Take an example from Six Flags. They place duplicate seats at the entrances of certain rides, so people can make sure they fit before waiting an hour in line. But how dare you call out someone who obviously fits into a seat in front of an entire waiting aircraft. Ignorance in this country appalls me, but I'm still not surprised to hear people yelling "if you're fat, then buy two seats." I don't necessarily disagree with that, if the passenger does not fit into one seat. However, Kevin Smith has made it quite clear that he sat comfortably in one seat, with the armrests down, and does not require a seatbelt extension. Yet he prefers to purchase a second seat so he doesn't have to sit next to jerks and creeps and make BS smalltalk. I've got social anxiety issues myself, and I wish I could afford to do the same. You should all really listen to Kevin's SModcast, and find out exactly how tactless these employees were. www.smodcast.com I've never personally experienced nasty employees like this with Southwest, but blatant disrespect like that is enough to make me favor ANY other airline, bag fees or no.
Worleygirl
Explorer C
You're a class act, Southwest. Thanks for keeping it honest and fair. Your policy is spot on and I support it 100%. No matter how famous the person in question may be.
Ali2
Explorer C
I love Southwest Airlines, I've flown with them a lot in my short history. Usually they have a great customer service and for certain flights they're great. But the truth is this experience has really shaken my faith in Southwest Airlines. This apology really stinks. I know this policy has been in place for 25 years, but you just need to make this right. You need to change your policy, clarify it, and improve it. Your company espouses a image of a business that does not believe in business as usual. This apology is business as usual. Do better, and restore our faith in your company.
Eric_Oppegaard
Explorer C
I support the decision, and to be honest, if Kevin Smith was not famous...would there be all of this hype? I think not. I am 6'4'' and 240lbs. While I am "overweight" I still fit in the seat comfortably. I have had the unfortunate experience of flying next to a customer of size on airlines that will not enforce their policies. If I am not mistaken, Southwest will refund the cost of the second seat a "Customer of Size" books if the flight is not overbooked. That is quite the policy, and more than fair in my opinion. I hope that this giant media parade does not discourage the comedic, eclectic, professional, and hard working flight attendants of Southwest Airlines. Keep up the good work Southwest, I LUV you too 🙂
Anonymous4055
Explorer C
I get that it's not super enjoyable to sit next to someone who is too big for their seat. But I find it less enjoyable to sit next to someone who just sucked down one last cigarette before boarding. Or some woman who doesn't understand a little bit of perfume goes a LONG way. Or in front of a kid who kicks the back of my seat the whole ride. I agree with many of the posts here. I think the key is to tell someone BEFORE they board the plane that the airline has concerns. My guess is, 99.9% of overweight people know that no one wants to sit next to them. And, are afraid of being called out -- in the way SW did with Kevin Smith. I'm glad he called you out. It was really poor form to pull him off the plane after he was seated with his seat belt buckled. And, OAK to Burbank is what -- a 90 minute flight? You should have let him stay. The fall out from this is bad and it's only going to get worse. I expect to get an email with some new GREAT sale prices any day now.
Anonymous4055
Explorer C
I get that it's not super enjoyable to sit next to someone who is too big for their seat. But I find it less enjoyable to sit next to someone who just sucked down one last cigarette before boarding. Or some woman who doesn't understand a little bit of perfume goes a LONG way. Or in front of a kid who kicks the back of my seat the whole ride. I agree with many of the posts here. I think the key is to tell someone BEFORE they board the plane that the airline has concerns. My guess is, 99.9% of overweight people know that no one wants to sit next to them. And, are afraid of being called out -- in the way SW did with Kevin Smith. I'm glad he called you out. It was really poor form to pull him off the plane after he was seated with his seat belt buckled. And, OAK to Burbank is what -- a 90 minute flight? You should have let him stay. The fall out from this is bad and it's only going to get worse. I expect to get an email with some new GREAT sale prices any day now.
Anonymous1354
Explorer C
Simple...the ones who are replying to this blog on Kevin Smith's side are fat....the ones on Southwest's side aren't.....
Sad
Explorer C
The sad thing here is that we have to put up with these people. Good job Southwest you have declared open season on the people that take up way too much space. They need to just stay home till they have shed the pounds and can join the human race
Not_a_Fan_of_SW
Explorer C
Where is the apology regarding the previous "apology"? You disclosed his purchasing of 2 seats and insinuated that this was common of Kevin Smith, spinning this the reason why he was removed as being "Too Fat To Fly" (in his own words). I find it wrong that SWA disclosed customer details in an effort to defend itself. It is even more of an insult when the disclosure is a half-truth to make your own firm look better. So, where is Christy Day's Apology for her snarky blog post about the incident when she didn't have any correct information to base it on?
Anonymous2341
Explorer C
I have experienced a similar situation. This past August, I flew my family to Vegas to celebrate my youngest child’s 21st birthday. I purchased our entire trip, round trip tickets, hotel and car, for six online via the Southwest Airline website. Our flight to Vegas was uneventful. However, our flight home was the most publically humiliating experience of my entire life. As I was ready to board the plan, the SW employee stopped me at the entrance to the plane, stacks of people behind me, and tells that I would have to return to the ticket counter and purchase a second ticket. Now, I had already been to the ticket counter to check my luggage, employees there saw me, knew what flight I was taking and never said a word. I made it through security, no one said a word (not that they would), but now I’m getting on the plane and you are telling I have to go back through security, back to the ticket counter and purchase a second ticket? Then I was asked if I could bring the arm rest down while seated. I explained that I could, but that it was uncomfortable. The employee said that he didn’t believe I could bring them down. So, I’m fat and a liar. And everyone waiting to board the plane is hearing this. It was humiliating. When I asked why I hadn’t had to buy a second ticket to come to Vegas, but had to buy one to return home, the employee couldn’t answer. He did say that maybe our flight here was fully booked. He further explain the policy, and I do understand why it’s in place and agree. I had heard of others having to buy two tickets where weight was an issue. While purchasing our tickets, I never saw anything prompting me to even give it a second thought. Maybe a question of girth should “pop” up at the time of purchase in case you fail to realize you should be purchasing a second ticket. I don't know... Yes, the website indicates that you need to read the terms and conditions, etc., which is not an excuse, but really, who reads all that stuff. I’ve flown in airplanes my entire life without a problem, but have never been this heavy. For me, I failed to realize I needed to purchase a second ticket, but the entire situation could have been handled more professionally, more discreetly. I would have purchased a second ticket, but honestly didn’t realize I qualified, but I do now…thank you Southwest setting me straight.
Sad
Explorer C
The sad thing here is that we have to put up with these people. Good job Southwest you have declared open season on the people that take up way too much space. They need to just stay home till they have shed the pounds and can join the human race
Your_fat_spille
Explorer C
If you're too fat to fit into a seat, find another mode of transport. Air travel is dangerous, inconvenient and complicated. The last thing we need is overweight people making the trip even more uncomfortable and unsafe. There are consequences to having a lack of discipline and becoming too overweight to fly. If you're overweight and spilling into another customer's seat, you make the situation very uncomfortable and possibly unsafe for that healthy person. Take control of your life, lose the weight and you'll have nothing to complain about. Or, if you choose to be lazy, exert no self-control and show a general disregard for your own health and the comfort of others, be prepared to pull out your cash and buy a second seat for your love handles.
JaneDoe
Explorer C
Wow. PC and PR spin is so far out of control that nobody can even address what Mr Smith is trying to say: You need to deal with HOW you implement your policy. He doesn't care what that policy is. But if you are seating people, pulling them off planes, lieing to them about why they were removed (pilot says safety vs. ground crew decided vs. who only knows), being rude and completely arbitrary in its enforcement... This blog post completely misses the mark. The fact that he saw it happen a second time to the person he was sitting next to on the next flight means this airline has a systemic issue with this policy. But apparently is can not own up to this fact, admit it and then proceed to deal with it. Epic fail. Epic spin while missing the point completely. I look forward to a more verbose response from Mr Smith regarding his conversation with Linda as I have a feeling, given his verbal dexterity, he probably still was left angry and unresolved. I like the idea of bring the seat to the Daily Show and having Mr Smith sit in it. If he fits and it meets SWA guidelines, they can use it as a training video and at least deal with one small part of the problem.
ace1
Explorer C
SWA rocks.Don't give into that bully Kevin Smith.He had bought two seats, but tried to go on a early flight(as standby).Employees made the right call by saying this will not work.I will keep flying you guy. Ace
SW_Flyer_4_Life
Explorer C
Bravo to Southwest for looking out for other passengers comfort and safety! Kevin Smith is indeed acting like a spoiled little (?) rich boy who thinks he deserves special treatment. My advice to him: fly another airline and pay for 1st class if you think you're that special. As for the others who are offended by the policy - why should the rest of us pay for your inability to get fit? Working on it? Bravo to you! Until you get there, though, pay for the extra seat or drive. Southwest has always had the best service, best prices, and best flight attendants! My family will remain loyal customers.
Anonymous514
Explorer C
Good job Southwest. I am tired of oversized persons picking seats next to me because I am small to average size, then spilling over and under the divider into my seat. I don't need to carry their portion of the fare in my seat. I'm not against over-sized people just them being in my space. You have a size guide for roll-on bags, maybe the airlines should consider a guide for passengers to fit. Over-sized people can buy two tickets.
Anonymous75
Explorer C
I find Southwest's "size policy" degrading and humiliating even though I too can fit in an airline seat, buckle up and put the arm rest down as a larger person. Why is it that in this politically correct world its still ok to penalize and treat fat people with prejudice? Here's a thought, Southwest -- why not make your airline comfortable and friendly TO ALL? I stopped flying your airline when you initiated this policy out of principal, so even though you continue to try to justify the policy by saying it has been in effect 25 years, maybe you should consider how much business you have also lost for the past 25 years because of it.
Chris_W1
Explorer C
Hey south west how about cutting your planes to 5 seats across so us fat guys have more room! with 6 seats across a 737 the seats are smaller them most but hell i use the extender and squeze my fat ass in the seat!
Anonymous4166
Explorer C
"I can't believe the audacity of some people that think that a private company (as in: not owned by the gov't) is in some way required to accommodate anyone. Southwest has the right to create policies as it sees fit. Without proof of some need for the company to accommodate a certain disability, they don't have to do anything. I love Southwest and I'm a proud supporter." I guess that means you don't wish them to accomodate YOU in any way either!!! I am glad I am not the only one who can read between the lines of Linda's statements.
Anonymous3747
Explorer C
I've noticed a lot of the comments on this mention that overweight people should have to pay for two seats so the other passengers will be more comfortable. Frankly if someone is going to have to pay for the two seats they should BE ABLE to have the two seats without having someone stuck up against them. Southwest tries to make as much money from their passengers as they can. They overbook flights, take seats away that someone has paid for. It's stupid. If someone is overweight and has to pay for the two seats then southwest doesn't need to take the extra seat away from them just to sell it (again) to someone else. Also if Kevin Smith was already sitting with his bag put up, and his armrests DOWN and the person or people next to him said they were COMFORTABLE there was NO reason to remove him from that flight other than the fact that southwest was doing it just to be A-holes because he's not built like a male model.
Mark_Kraft
Explorer C
I've flown Southwest in the past, but had never heard of this policy previously. I'm around 6'4" with a stocky build, wide shoulders... a defensive linebacker's body. (i.e. I'm genetically like this.) I've gained some weight from my college days, but I can sit in the seat and lower the armrest just fine... though I have to admit, your seats and legroom are uncomfortable for more than short flights. and yet, I apparently have to be concerned with flying Southwest now, not only because I fundamentally disagree with your rather unhelpful, inflexible, and ultimately discriminatory policies, but also because I have seen just how arbitrary the implementation of your policies can be. This isn't *just* about Kevin Smith. Indeed, Kevin Smith wasn't the first person you applied this policy to in an arbitrary, embarrassing, nonsensical manner. See http://tinyurl.com/yafovkw and many other examples out there on the Internet. Ultimately, it's about restoring confidence. I'm a big, strong, tall guy... and I'm skittish about flying on your planes anymore, for fear that your employees might arbitrarily screw me over on the deal. After review, it's pretty clear that your airline hasn't made this mistake for the first time; it's made it time and time again over the course of years... and I guarantee you, every single time you screw up again and someone gets booted off their flight, people all over the Internet -- including Kevin Smith -- are going to draw attention to it. The simple fact is, the policy as it stands is a PR nightmare, is bound to be intrinsically flawed due to basic human error, and needs change. Really, it's about trust. And, as it stands, you've lost mine and that of hundreds of thousands of customers. Mark Kraft, Santa Clara, CA
Amy2111
Explorer C
Have you considered having a chair out in front of the check-in desk, like they do at amusement parks, to determine if a person can fit squarely in the seat, with armrests down, and seat belt fastened in the upright position? Or this: If tickets are bought online, maybe people should provide weight and measurements. Or consider this: you section off a part of the aircraft as being a BIG AND TALL area. Tall people also have trouble fitting in the seats. Maybe the seats cost 10 dollars more???? Just a few options that might help you avoid embarrassing situations like this.
a_Canadian_mom
Explorer C
"At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him.' So, the passengers on each side of him, who both stated that he WAS NOT infringing on their space, coupled with Mr. Smith's lowering of the armrest, was not enough for your Employees to make the obvious judgement? Invoking a 25-year policy is one thing but Mr Smith PASSES both criteria (armrest and seatbelt) and did not REQUIRE an extra seat. The policy then has no bearing on this case. Reading between the lines, it appears that the airline belatedly noticed that Mr. Smith had booked 2 seats on his original flight, and mistakenly assumed that he was required to do so because of his size. SouthWest Airlines then epically failed to communicate with their passenger, and brought on themselves a completely deserved storm of criticism. This apology, like everything else I have read from SouthWest on this incident, sounds hollow and does not come to terms with the essential customer service issue. Our family will NOT support a company unwilling to admit to and rectify its blunders.
34_waist
Explorer C
I'm glad to see so many "people of size" declaring that they will never fly Southwest again. That decreases the probability of my having them choosing to sit next to me, on the theory that someone of my size doesn't need his "full" seat. I once had to stand for more than 10 hours at the back of a Frankfurt - San Francisco flight because a very large person occupied the adjacent seat and most of the one that was assigned to me. That was an exit row seat, and I can't understand how the airline (let's call it UAUA) could allow that person to be seated there, since he seemed unable to perform the required tasks in the event of an emergency. Extra points to Southwest for being the first airline to establish policy about large passengers and for continuing to apply that policy to the best of its ability. I hope that my ticket purchases help to offset any business that Southwest loses from the boycotters.
Tom_P
Explorer C
I am also a frequent SW flyer, and I think what this is about is bullying. The airlines, and I mean all of them, and especially southwest, have utilized their "looking out for terrorists" to allow themselves to become bullies. Everyone knows that if you fly, you BETTER NOT argue or talk back to a "flight attendant" or they might just turn the plane around (remind you of your parents?) and make sure you make the daily news. SW is repeatedly making the news because of some incorrectly or possibly incorrect application of rules. Grow up SW...learn to treat your bankroll like the bankroll it is. We have a choice in airlines.
Anonymous3805
Explorer C
I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER fly your airline. Sounds like a Hitlerian cattle car to me. You blatantaly discriminate, then justify your behavior. If Kevin had been gay would you have ejected him? How about if he was a Muslim? What's next throw off the black people? It's okay to do it to fatty? What's worse is all the respondents who seem to think its fine. Let's throw the ugly off the airplane! After all they're a distraction to the pilot and might make him/her sick. This could be a hazard to the flight. The airlines keep shrinking seat size so they can pack more people into their flying cattle cars. Then they want to throw the fat people off because they can't cram their rear ends into the 19 inch seat. Boycott Southwest NOW! Sell their stock!! By the Mika, up yours too!
Kai_Macmahon
Explorer C
Sorry, but who are you Linda? Curious. Cheers, kai @ http://www.kaimac.com
Gracie
Explorer C
I love all the compliments towards SW... seriously... most of your responses sound like employees of said airline... such a joke... you're still implying that he needs 2 seats... when he clearly doesn't... so thank your PR department for issuing this lame apology... I applaud Mr.Smith for not keeping quiet as most would in his circumstances... and he's only getting what you call an apology because of his public profile... anyone else that has been where he has I'm sure you would wave off as a nuisance... I for one will gladly pay the extra baggage fee from other airlines if it's the price you have to pay for human kindness!! And no, I weigh no more than 126lbs... but I have a heart and compassion which clearly this company and it's employees do not!!
Anonymous1591
Explorer C
But did SW "apologize" for shaming Kevin and in essence all overweight people in the world? "Linda" says nothing about being sorry for JUDGING Kevin as being too fat to fly just by how he looked, was dressed, etc. He was not ejected b/c he was too fat to fly (I believe the facts he has put forth in the smodcast - he showed them the arm rests went down. he was able to buckle the belt if they gave him the chance to prove it.) He was ejected because SW THOUGHT he was too fat to fly and thought they could get a way with treating him like ANY OTHER overweight person on their flight - like crap. Nor did SW Linda apologize for what their behavior signifies in this country - that it's okay to treat overweight people like sh*t. To judge them before even speaking to them, to abuse through ridicule and embarrassment. I hope SW goes down for good because of this and I hope Kevin teams together with http://www.peopleofsize.com/ and use this experience to draw more attention to Southwest TERRIBLE practices that hopefully will some day soon lead to a Class Action Suit.
Paula9
Explorer C
Southwest treated me wonderfully, changed flights with no hassle and generally stepped up during a tough timeframe involving a medical situation with my son. SW flights to and from Midway run on time, while other airlines leave you sitting. Regardless of the situation being discussed here, I've found the company and its employees to be caring and respectful.
25__waist
Explorer C
Honestly, I've never been a huge fan of Southwest, but only used it because it was the most convenient (oh hey, just like Kevin Smith!)--not only are the fares cheaper if you buy months in advance (within a month, not the cheapest), but it services both small and large airports. For me, it was convenient to have one airline that went between San Diego and all three main Bay Area airports. But that's really where my "luv" for Southwest ends. I could go on with a list of things I hate about the airline, but it would be pointless. The real point is that Kevin Smith, although a director (read: NOT celebrity), isn't raising a fuss just because he himself got kicked off a flight for being "2 fat 2 fly," but rather, the manner in which it happened, and how it was handled by Southwest's employees. There seems to be no consistency in how the policy is implemented, and the main contributing factor to him being so vocal about the issue is the humiliation he saw happen to another "person of size" on his original flight back to Burbank. Although this "apology" is more diplomatic and professional than the one posted by Christi Day, it really isn't an apology at all. You're giving the same previous message of: "We were right, and Kevin Smith is really 2 Fat 2 Fly." You just covered it up in "reasonable guy" icing. If you really want to know the FULL story, go to smodcast.com and listen to Kevin's side, not just Southwest's, when the employees in question aren't even present to give their point of view. If there even is one, which I highly doubt. (As a side note, his Tweets about this Captain Leysath booting him off... The employee who took him off the plane wouldn't even confirm that she had said that to him, even though she did, and Smith knew full well that the pilot couldn't even see him.) And before all the haters start, yes, I am a fan of Kevin Smith's work but no, I am not an obsessive fanboy. No, I am not a "fellow fattie." Oh, and why yes, I too have shared rows with "people of size," but trust me, screaming babies and people who get too drunk off of in-flight drinks to even get out of their seat at the end of a 1.5-hour flight are WAY worse. At least "people of size" don't make noise or kick your seat. Not to mention so many Southwest flights are so short in duration that it doesn't really matter if you have your own space bubble. It's like saying, "Hey, sick guy coughing? DON'T TAINT MY AIR!" You really want your own space? Buy two seats like Kevin Smith does. He only does it *on occasion* because he hates sitting next to people. Yes, I've done my research and fact-checking (which most people who are commenting "Lose some weight, fat boy!" obviously have NOT). I understand where both sides are coming from, but when it comes to this situation, among other similar ones, I have to side with Smith. Sorry Southwest, I'm a petite Rapid Rewards member under 120 pounds, but I'm only flying you 3 more times next month because I booked those trips before this hit the fan. It's not even worth it to me to fly two more one-ways after that to get the free flight.
Anonymous2103
Explorer C
Disappointing situation and reaction. I will not be flying SW anymore.
Joseph_D
Explorer C
You handled the situation well Southwest. Good job and I will keep flying.
Anonymous4256
Explorer C
LoL. You have two blog posts with more comments than all your other posts combined... And still have FAILED to address the actual issue. One side cheering "Boot the fatties!" and the other side saying "What are the rules, why are they arbitrary, why is staff so rude/uncaring in communicating and why are the current rules so unevenly enforced?" And the only camp happy is the one that really didn't have a horse in this race. The longer the root is not addressed, the more you will sear into peoples minds that if they fly SWA, they have a chance to get pulled off a booked flight with nary a polite word in sight. And then lies as to why. And even after all this, SWA is STILL unable to articulate WHY this happened the way it did. Was it the pilot? Ground crew? Who does actually get to decide? How does this work?
Justin_Sluss
Explorer C
Bunch of sizist bastards
Anonymous524
Explorer C
I think it's time for someone to file a class action suit. You guys are perilously close to running afoul of the ADA. Like the others here, I get that people don't want be encroached upon by a fatty. But why do I need to buy *two* seats if I don't need *two* seats?? Why not have seats on your plane that can accommodate wider folks the way you have seats for taller folks??
Frequent_Flier1
Explorer C
Sorry you're fat Kevin, but don't take it out on the most enjoyable (actually the ONLY) enjoyable airline to fly these days. Even if you had a legitimate grievance, your completely idiotic Tweets were over the top and offensive. Suggestion: Push yourself away from the table and the keyboard in the future.
Gracie
Explorer C
I love all the compliments towards SW... seriously... most of your responses sound like employees of said airline... such a joke... you're still implying that he needs 2 seats... when he clearly doesn't... so thank your PR department for issuing this lame apology... I applaud Mr.Smith for not keeping quiet as most would in his circumstances... and he's only getting what you call an apology because of his public profile... anyone else that has been where he has I'm sure you would wave off as a nuisance... I for one will gladly pay the extra baggage fee from other airlines if it's the price you have to pay for human kindness!! And no, I weigh no more than 126lbs... but I have a heart and compassion which clearly this company and it's employees do not!!
Erica
Explorer C
Unlike many people, I listened to Kevin Smith's entire SModcast about this event. I have been a fan of his for many years and this incident has only reinforced my admiration of him. For those offended by his "classless" language - that's his style and it is not at all specific to this event. This is a man who will get on stage and talk about anything and everything for his fans. How many of you would tell millions of people that you were kicked off of a flight because of your weight? Because he is willing to do so, Southwest and hopefully many other airlines will be forced to evaluate the way that they treat people in general. More importantly, his motivation was not purely selfish. Since this part of the story will get VERY much swept under the rug, I feel like I should tell it. On his flight home, Kevin sat next to a young lady who was also pulled out of her seat and told that she might have to buy a second seat due to her "size", EVEN THOUGH the flight attendant knew that no one would be sitting in the seat between her and Kevin (since he had paid for two seats for his own use). As he so poignantly pointed out, that girl could have been his daughter. Or yours. And she doesn't have a national stage to stand on and say that it bothered her. For all of those who blame "fat America" - wait until Southwest kicks you off because you have a child who is crying or your miniskirt is too short. This is about paying for a service and getting what you pay for without humiliation or ridicule. If there is a question about "size", it should be handled before a person gets on the plane - or even gets to the gate. Also, as many have pointed out, he met the magical criteria of pulling down the armrests and should have never been kicked off of the plane. Southwest should have apologized, but that doesn't earn my respect or appreciation. Fix the problem and don't make anyone's daughter feel like Kevin or his seat mate again. Now that it is on a national stage, it should warrant their attention.
Anonymous377
Explorer C
I don't applaud Southwest at all. It's obvious SWA screwed up and tried to gloss over it. In fact, I imagine the "guy at the plane door" who had the "revenue" conversation with Kevin Smith is the person who in fact made the command decision about booting him off the plane. And then had the nerve to blame it on the pilot. So now we know that: 1) Southwest's "person of size" policy is arbitrary 2) Southwest employees lie about Command Pilot orders So why would I ever fly your airline ever again? I stopped flying US Airways when one of their baggage apes stole out of my locked, checked baggage; I certainly don't trust an airline that lies about Flight Crew and/or Command Pilot orders. Captain Leysath, IF there really is such a Captain, should have the job(s) of the crew who threw HIM under the plane with Mr. Smith. I own stock in SWA; several thousand shares. This fiasco is making me consider dumping it all. I'm not as large as Kevin Smith but even I am uncomfortable in the majority of airline seats I use.