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Southwest Airlines Community

Not So Silent Bob

cday
Frequent Flyer C

Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight.  It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you.   We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines. 

As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.

Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest.  He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. We are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, we made a judgment call that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.

You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.

1,758 Comments
Anonymous1265
Explorer C
MY HUSBAND AND I WERE SLOTED IN AISLE SEATS LAST YEAR WHEN WE BOARDED A FLIGHT FROM VEGAS TO NEW YORK. A LARGE 350-400 POUNDS MAN WAS SEATED IN THE CENTER SEAT WITH HIM TAKING UP HALF MY HUSBANDS SEAT. WAS THIS FAIR TO US? I APPROACHED THE CREW AND ASKED FOR A FULL SEAT FOR MY HUSBAND. NOW I REALIZE WHEN BUYING ON LINE SWA HAS NO IDEA WHAT SIZE THE PERSON IS, BUT THE GATE KEEPERS SEE THEM. THEY KNEW THIS WAS A FULL FLIGHT. I GAVE UP MY AISLE SEAT TO SIT NEXT TO MY HUSBAND SO AS TO STAY MARRIED AT THE END OF THIS FLIGHT. THIS DID NOT MAKE THE MAN IN THE CENTER NEXT TO ME HAPPY SINCE THEY MOVED THE BIG GUY TO MY AISLE SEAT. THE CREW TOOK OFF THE AISLE ARM REST AND TOLD HIM HE MUST POSITION HIMSELF SO THAT THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE HAD HIS FULL SEAT. THEN HE NEEDED TWO EXTENSIONS FOR HIS SEAT BELT BEFORE WE COULD TAKE OFF. NOW I REALIZE SOME PEOPLKE ARE WEIGHT CHALLENGED AND SOME ARE JUST FAT BUT NO ONE ELSE SHOULD SUFFER BECAUSE OF IT.
Sean41
Explorer C
I've listened to the podcast from Kevin Smith. This is going to get worse if you do not address the other issues of Mr. Smith buying 10 tickets in a week? I understand this isn't a first class airline, but you've made a name for customer service, and then a PR blemish like this is mismanaged by your staff.
Scott_Brewer
Explorer C
I just flew Southwest over Christmas with my wife and daughter. I had no problems at all. That said, after learning of this, and the toddler being ejected, and the stupid "change out of your miniskirt" debacle, I won't ever consider flying Southwest again. Ever. I live in the Twin Cities, and get enough of the Midwest Nazi (Jante Law) bullshit here. I don't need it from an airline while flying OUT of this godforsaken place.
Regina_E_
Explorer C
You just don't get it, do you MR CORPORATE AMERICA SOUTHWEST AIRLINES!
Janice5
Explorer C
Regarding the incident, since Mr. Smith had twice presented himself to the gate attendents ahead of time as a standby passenger trying to get on the full flight, the staff should have been able to assertain he would not meet their Policy requirements AT THAT TIME. SWA should have followed THEIR OWN policy and informed Mr. Smith that there were not enough seats on that particular flight to accomodate him as a standby passenger, and he would have to wait to take his original flight where he HAD purchased 2 seats. To publicly humiliate him like that after he boarded the plane is just horrible inhumane behaviour, and I really encourage SWA to review it's customer service training. It appears you fell WAY short of the bar on this one. Your next quarterly earnings statements will relect how badly your insensitivity affects your customer base. Good luck building the business back up. On another note, Southwest could take a lesson from a chapter in the Canadian Transport Agency's policy: "The Canadian Transportation Agency released its Decision No. 6-AT-A-2008 on January 10, 2008. One result is that Air Canada, Westjet, and Air Canada Jazz will have to provide additional seating at no extra cost for any passengers who need extra room because of a disability. Obesity has been found to be a disability in this context, provided it is severe enough to prevent the obese person's ability to fit into the airline seat comfortably. The decision is also about the right of severely disabled persons to have a personal care attendant fly with them at no additional cost, provided the attendant's services are required during the flight, as discussed in the article One Person, One Fare Policy." http://accessible-transportation.suite101.com/article.cfm/obese_air_passengers_win
Anonymous4392
Explorer C
I'm Interested in the Strange capiTalization in this Blog. is This some Kind of secret code?
Anonymous420
Explorer C
I think what stands out in SW's guidelines is that it says if a customer cannot "comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat" that they have the right to ask the person to leave. Everyone is focusing on the armrest thing, but even if KS could get his armrests down, it doesn't mean that he isn't infringing on the 2 seats next to him. SW is a really good airline that is no BS. I prefer them over anyone else and appreciate that they respect my paid-for seat space as being mine. I am not being insensitive, but I shouldn't have to suffer for someone else's lack of dietary control - which KS clearly admits he has issues with.
Anonymous4392
Explorer C
what's With all the Strange capiTalization in This blog. is It some Type Of code?
Anonymous420
Explorer C
By the way, D Day Dawg - I am pretty sure KS announced on TV a couple of years ago that his doctor declared him 'morbidly obese.'
Dan11
Explorer C
SWA- Even as a skinny passenger, I would expect more from you. You've just racked up a list of missteps: -A questionable decision to remove him from the flight. -An insincere apology. -A complete lack of understanding of basic customer service principals. This whole thing, including your blog post, is not only rude but also bad business. Reap what you sow.
Anonymous872
Explorer C
That is the biggest non-apology apology I have ever read. That's really how you want to handle this? To try and have a PR battle with him? You're outgunned from the start. You would have been so much better off actually admitting your mistake and trying to rectify things instead of entrenching. You don't want to admit your mistake because you're afraid he'll sue you or whatever, but by maintaining this route you are doing so much MORE damage to yourself. This could have been just a case of one employee messing up, but now it really is a reflection on your whole company. I know when I have the choice, I will never fly Southwest again. And I'm not even fat!
Average_Sized_J
Explorer C
I've got a good idea... How about we create a business class, first class, and fat class? Wide seats for wide asses with big ass mouths like Kevin. Spare us the drama and go on Biggest Loser.
Anonymous2567
Explorer C
Christi Day, Get out of your PR box and quit while you are WAY behind. I'm skinny but tall. Your legroom is pathetic but that is beside the point. This guy is not so fat that you had to make him deplane, period. Very simple. The fact that he embarrassed you is simply new to you and Southwest, since as a company spokesperson you are used to being in control. Give up, accept the fact that SWA is not God, (and your jokes are getting very old, we just want to get from point A to point B with minimum discomfort). By the way, how do you manage split a can of coke? Just don't bother. You are free now to lie about the company, ding!
Anonymous1646
Explorer C
Chisti Day, YOU ARE NOW FREE TO LIE ABOUT YOUR COMPANY, DING!
Mac2
Explorer C
What is pathetic is the number of commenters who called SWA pathetic. If Kevin Smith could actually occupy only one seat without cramping the person in the next seat, I don't see how any airline personnel could object to his occupancy. Sounds like a lot of hearsay on some twitterer's part, if he says the flight was not full, yet the airline rep says there was only one seat available.
Anonymous351
Explorer C
You guys are assholes. I want the name of the Revenue Guy in the jetbridge. You fucked with the wrong person. The Askew Nation is bigger than you think & we won't fly your POS airline. And to do this to someone who buys as many tickets as the Smiths do? How fucking stupid are you? I hope Suzanne is fired, eating out of garbage cans. Fucking lying bitch. You guys don't even know who you are messing with.
Danielle
Explorer C
I fly a lot and don't enjoy being uncomfortable in my seat for any reason just as any other passenger, but their so called "policies" aren't upheld consistently and really only deals with people's weight, not all of the true potential safety concerns ... what about elderly passengers, children traveling alone, single parents with multiple children ona flight, or even the handicapped - wouldn't they technically fall into this "safety concern" category SWA has quoted as the reason as they too might impede an emergency exit type situation? And where do they draw the line? Who else can they decide to discriminate against at their leisure? There's another situation not too long ago that they removed a woman because she dressed too provocatively - how is that a safety concern? I've flown next to just about all of the above, including people of different size, which obviously weren't ejected AFTER boarding the plane due to "safety reasons." They obviously saw his size when they allowed him to go stand by, added him to the list, let him walk down the jet way and onto the plane and into his seat, especially when the 2 women on either side of him said there wasn't a problem and could all fit just fine. Regardless of which side you fall on, the policy is 25 years old and should not only be re-examined, but either removed or upheld on a consistent, standardized and better communicated basis. They also need to invest in a decent PR officer or firm to better represent them on this situation then the blog posts and tweets some of their employees are doing.
Anonymous1601
Explorer C
Totally agree with this earlier post: "First of all, the title of the blog itself is insulting. Were you trying to be cute or funny? Does a disgruntled customer not have the right to speak out? Secondly, from a PR standpoint this is horrendous. You're disclosing personal information about Kevin Smith's history doing business with you and this is supposed to quell any concerns potential customers may have about flying with you? I'm glad Kevin Smith has been as vocal as he has been about this because it's shined the light on what little concern Southwest has for its customers. I'm never flying with your airline again."
Anonymous1037
Explorer C
I absolutely support the size policy. Why should a person of size have rightds that supercede those of an average size individual unless they have a diagnosed disability certified by a medical professional. Having just flown on United cross country with a person of size next to me each way and having to endured the person's girth completing consuming our shared arm rest plus abundantlyt flowed over into my seating space, it was indeed uncomfortable and unsafe in my mind. Tell me all you liberal minded folks out there supporting Kevin Smith, think that he and others of size have a right to make me feel so uncomfortable? You go for it Southwest! They certainly should be allowed to fly but be politely informed upfront that due to the additional space they require to accommodate their body size. If it's two seats, it's two seats, period, end of story!
Anonymous1037
Explorer C
I absolutely support the size policy. Why should a person of size have rights that supercede those of an average size individual unless they have a diagnosed disability certified by a medical professional. Having just flown on United Airlines across country with a person of size next to me each way and having to endured the person's girth completing consuming our shared arm rest plus a portion of my seating space, it was indeed uncomfortable and unsafe in my mind. What ever the reason for each of these men's obesity, or Kevin Smith's, it is a situation without a win win solution. Maybe Southwest's response could have been crafted with less corporate speak and some greater depth of sensitivity but I think it is a fantastic airline that has excellent service, respects people's time by keeping to their schedule departures and arrivals and allows for rebooking and crediting of cancelled flights that no other airline can match. You go for it Southwest! People of size should certainly should be allowed to fly but be politely informed upfront of the rules and then make a personal decision. Celebrities using social networks to voice their complains really is pathetic and does not engender once ounce of sympathy out of me.
Frank9
Explorer C
Anybody with the gaul to say that Southwest was justified in this case, or who is defending this airline's policy regarding larger passengers, consider for a moment that any passenger's comfort may come at the discomfort of others. Lights, perfumes, shades, seat angles, loud music, ventilation choices, food, smells...there is a long list of complaints one passenger can levy against another. The lack of understanding, compassion and tolerance in our society is appalling.
Anonymous3604
Explorer C
Southworst. Last time I flew, one stewardess, screamed at a disabled passenger across the isle because he had the gall to request a wheechair upon landing in Tulsa. She then got on the microphone and called out attention to any disabled on the flight, tellling them to "sit down!" in a condescending, obnoxious tone of voice. Another stewardess flatly refused to help my wife getting her bag into the overhead compartment, no explanation, just turned her back and walked away. if you complain to the company, you are blacklisted.
Marifase
Explorer C
People who support SW Airlines in this matter are entitled to their opinion, if they listen the both sides of the argument, however, by stating that you think SW Air handled it perfectly, you are stating that you either a) have no human compassion, and/or b) have no recognition of the lack of consistency regarding the implementation of this policy. When it comes down to it, SW Air, knowing that they only had one seat for K. Smith, and knowing his size, should not have let him board the flight in the first place if they were going to insist that he have two seats. K. Smith stated that he was told that he had to be able to fasten his seat belt and put both arm rests down to be considered fitting in the seat, both cases in which he complied. He also states that there was another even larger man on the plane that was not asked to exit the plane, which proves that this policy is not implemented in a consistent and professional manner. SW Air has behaved UNPROFESSIONALLY which is a sin. AND I know K. Smith is not the first victim of this arbitrary and subjective process. My father is a travel agent. SW Air is no longer a company I will use or he will book.
JulietteF
Explorer C
Lies. Someone's telling lies. SW, as the ones who took unusual action, it's your job to prove yourselves in the right: get Mr. Smith in a seat and show him not fitting, as per your posted/written policy: ---->>>What is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size? >>The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel. ---- "pics or it didn't happen" If the fatass fits, you must acquit.
Anonymous1569
Explorer C
southwest you suck. i'll never fly you ever!
Anonymous654
Explorer C
I can only imagine what an awkward and embarrassing situation for this passenger. I usually do not fly Southwest, but after hearing this, I will not in the future for fear of being embarrassed or removed by some peon. If Southwest has a problem with larger customers, redesign your seating, or why not ask for height and weight when purchasing tickets? wait that would never "fly", that would be discriminatory, and that's just what Southwest did in this situation, discriminated against a passenger... "Not So Silent Bob"? obviously some people working in PR, and flight crew need to be replaced, really the whole situation is "just plane cheap"!
Anonymous1131
Explorer C
as an employee of southwest a think we handled this very bad. im a fat guy too built pretty much like mr smith. i have no problem fitting in the seats. i really dont think he had a issue fitting in the seat. i cant say were the ultimate issue was but i can say it sounds like we messed up. i hope as a company we can sit back and learn how to better handle these situations in the future so there isnt anymore incidents like this.
Shell
Explorer C
wow is this an apology?!?
Anonymous2395
Explorer C
really? thats your response? change the policy or the one third of america that is overweight will drop your service.
Anonymous1400
Explorer C
I too love Southwest for protecting me from having to sit next to fat people squished into one seat.
nonfat_double_t
Explorer C
Here is an idea. Southwest you are clearly visionary and are one of the few airlines that do not charge for baggage. I see all the really bad posts about "thank you for protecting me from sitting next to fatty" I wonder if these people really consider any words that come out of their mouths. Hey .....airlines....lets try this one. Sell seats that are suited for human bodies that are not a size 1-6 or for kids. Give up a little more leg room so that people do not need to lean through an entire flight. The concept here is to make flying fun again. I know that the flight attendants would rather be dealing with people who are actually comfortable in their seats. I wonder when the decision was made to pack us in like flippin chickens on the way to slaughter. Southwest you are a innovative and customer centric airline. Take it to the next level and you could be the world leader in the airline industry. Re configure planes to have more room for "everyone" while at it reconfigure to accommodate wheel chair bound people or people who may be larger folks. Put it in the back of the plane so it is not thought of as FIRST CLASS Seating.....Charge those folks who are larger a little extra for the bigger seat but hey if they do not book those seats then....they don't fly and what do you have? Premium seating that you could say sell on the day of flight to anyone who would like to "upgrade" Or you have a fantastic new game to play on the plane....answer these questions and you win... the big seats!!! Of course if you gave your regualr customers a comfortable chair that actually had more than 2 inches of leg room wow.......who would be mad... we would be so much happier when we fly. Maybe a little less bitchy customers who are just so pissed to be on this silver tube crammed next to smelly guy or gassy guy that your profits will soar.... Southwest.....the airline that wants to make flying fun again. I have a lot of ideas about how you could revolutionize your service and kick some airline industry butt becuase you can do it.... YOU CAN DO IT SW!!!! Do it.
Sabotosh
Explorer C
Thanks SW for letting both sides on this issue share their opinions. Openness does not appear to be the case at Smodcast with moderators only allowing posts that fit their specific Narrative. Very very sad to filter the information flow - still love your movies though Mr. Smith. This is clearly a safety issue and I appreciate your policy. I also understand all the pain and embarrassment this causes heavier customers - there is no good solution here. This is also symptomatic of a larger issue in America that we all need to start taking about http://www.ted.com/talks/jamie_oliver.html.
chelsea11
Explorer C
THANK YOU Southwest Airlines for sticking to principle and making everyone's travel the best it can be. No one wants to be stuck in discomfort on any flight. Poor Kevin, who has a policy of purchasing 2 seats, should know better than getting mad and insulting the one true airline left to the serve the people. Just because he had airline rage does not give him the opportunity to go on a rant and bash. No offense to those who are obese but please either change your lifestyle or purchase more seats because its not fair to the rest of the people who have to suffer. Southwest Airlines has always been first class, on time, and kind to me. Thank you for the quality service Chelsea
ken111
Explorer C
I support SW and their policy. I really hate "sharing" my seat with the person next to me! I'll be flying with you as often as I can and as long as you don't fold. "normal" people have rights too...
Melissa_in_Aust
Explorer C
I'm incredibly disappointed in the way SW Airlines has handled this incident, as well as the others that have come to light in the wake of Smith's campaign. I'm a short woman with a small frame, so this policy (and it's seemingly random application) doesn't affect me, but I'm appalled on behalf of the many travelers it does affect. I live in an area serviced by SW and I travel frequently for business and pleasure, but until SW devices a fair policy and enforces it consistently and fairly (for example, not based on eyeballing passengers to determine whether or not they might fit between the armrest), I'll be choosing other airlines for my travel needs.
Melissa_in_Aust
Explorer C
I'm incredibly disappointed in the way SW Airlines has handled this incident, as well as the others that have come to light in the wake of Smith's campaign. I'm a short woman with a small frame, so this policy (and it's seemingly random application) doesn't affect me, but I'm appalled on behalf of the many travelers it does affect. I live in an area serviced by SW and I travel frequently for business and pleasure, but until SW devices a fair policy and enforces it consistently and fairly (for example, not based on eyeballing passengers to determine whether or not they might fit between the armrest), I'll be choosing other airlines for my travel needs.
Anonymous2708
Explorer C
Kevin Smith may choose to be fat. That is his choice. But he has NO RIGHT to interfere with MY space on an airplane. When I fly, I pay for a full seat; and I am entitled to that space. It seems that Kevin Smith believes he is entitled to 1 1/2 seats, to the detriment and extreme discomfort of anyone unlucky enough to be sitting beside him. Either buy two seats or take a bus! The pilot at SW is a hero for having the courage to take a potentially "politically incorrect" stand about what is fair, right, and safe.
Artie1
Explorer C
Southwest's policy of real estate purchase boundaries being the lowered armrests of one airline seat is fair. Enforcement of the boundaries when a person occupies the seat and overflows into area paid for and therefore intended to be used by an adjacent passenger must be the responsibility of the flight attendants and ultimately the Captain. Stay strong and don't yield to some loudmouth with a platform, or the climbers and others who are afraid that they might have to purchase two seats. I've already heard too many innaccurate statements made by this whiner. Keep up the good work, Southwest. Enforcement of rules means someone is always going to be unhappy. It is usually the spoiled child that throws the temper tantrum...
Nicole1
Explorer C
If people sized like Kevin Smith (who we now know CAN fit in a SW seat) have to buy two tickets just so you pompous "anonymous" a**holes aren't "inconvenienced", then I would like to see everyone with halitosis or body odor issues also be required to purchase an extra seat for the "convenience" of those around them... How about it SW, a new "customers of smell" policy??
Anonymous1756
Explorer C
Never flying Southwest again It was fun while it lasted
Anonymous3748
Explorer C
As long as Southwest would be just as diligent removing a smelly skinny person from next to me.......or an old lady whose mind is gone who is drooling......or a mentally handicapped child who is screaming and hitting. Would it still be the heavy person who is most uncomfortable to sit next to and the only one not allowed to fly? Airline travel has become a greyhound bus in the sky. Get over it people, you never know who you are going to get.
Anonymous2005
Explorer C
I love you SWA! This is awesome!
Nat_Yong
Explorer C
I used to fly free standby at Southwest airlines due to employee benefits (which are great,IMO) but this is stupid. I'm 6'3" , 205 pounds, and my hips have a hard time fitting in the seat(both sides rub tightly) and my shoulders definitely don't fit within seat space. 17" is not enough. When am I going to have to start paying for 2 seats?
m_rousseau
Explorer C
If you don't want large people to fly on your planes just call yourselves Slimwest Airlines! I have checked the blogs on both sides of the story and you guys have been caught in a huge lie (pun intended). SWA is full of corporate shit as usual!!! Wake-up and examine your policies and procedures for these incidents. Customer service dropped the ball on this one big time. An apology with a voucher shows how petty you really are!! You should be taking a proactive approach to customer service or you will all be talking to customer service of the unemployment lines!!!
Anonymous3340
Explorer C
I'm amazed on how ignorant and small minded people can be, so for a little bit of your own medicine: For all those who can't stand us fatties that's ok because we can't stand you skinny ass toothpicks either - need us to throw you a donut, don't worry you can throw it up later!
AJ_Don_t_Fly_No
Explorer C
I'm not going to write what everyone else is saying because I do agree that the "apology" to KS was awful, spiteful and insincere. What I will say that that regardless of whatever size you are, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has EVER flown coach and said what a relaxing and comfortable ride it was. You are ALWAYS squeezed against someone, big or small, someone always smells (bad or good/perfumy) and if you say that you have flown coach and were comfortable sitting next to 2-3 people, you are a liar regardless of your size. We are arguing about the definition of what it means to be "fat" and or "normal" and these definitions do not exist because there is no one definition. SW is trying to make money and we are the morons who keep paying for the bad service and "shared cans of Coke". If you wanna make a difference, stop flying with SW because this is a PR nightmare that was WAITING to happen to one of these money grubbing companies. If SW (or any airline) wants to make this better, they should accommodate all customers regardless of size, disability...whatever. Start by making the damn seats bigger because I guarantee, anyone who has said that a fat person has "invaded their space" would shut their mouths if ALL the seats were bigger. SW here is the plea from the common man, STOP treating us like luggage, STOP treating people like garbage, STOP treating your customers as a burden and START making some damn changes. You dropped the ball and FINALLY someone was able to shed some light on the shadey business of your airline. DING! You are now free to lie about responsibility...
KS_fat
Explorer C
Kevin, you are overweight. Lose some weight, it will be good for you.
Pablo_L_
Explorer C
I haven't had the opportunity to take a flight with Southwest, however after these events regarding the treatment of Kevin Smith, I can assure you, I will never travel with your airline.
Anonymous1465
Explorer C
People of size who have difficulty with assuring personal space for others may need to sit together, three per side, six per row.
shimon
Explorer C
This is the biggest load of Corporate B.S. I have ever read. You are the worst apologisers in the history of apologies. I actually think he should have used more colourful language with you as that is all that ever gets a big corporations attention. The point he was making wasn’t about the policy being wrong it was about it not being applicable.