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Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

jmschedler
Explorer B

I'm in the same boat....WAITING YEARS for SW to finally get going to hawaii.  Then the same month they do they steal 264,320 points from me.  Same month.  I checked 4 days after they poofed to see if I could book a flight to Hawaii and noticed the 0 points.  Talk about total disbelief.

 

Tens of thousands spent with Southwest for years and holding onto my points for a very good reason.  Then without any real notice just the fine print they hide behind.....Poof.   Exact same experience with customer service......"sorry nothing I can do" and there is no higher title you can contact other than "supervisor".  You mean to tell me every "supervisor" that responds on the phone at customer service doesn't report to someone?  

 

Don't you think a real customer service oriented business would maybe let your customers know they are about to lose thousands in credit?  Don't you think an upfront and honest company would devise a system of alerts rather than a hidden mention in a marketing/promotional email?  

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

SadSWFlyer
Explorer B

They did the same to me. See my story here. There is ZERO chance this is an accident. They know they are doing it to people, they know they aren't warning them, and they don't care.

 

Like you, my complaint isn't that they expire (even though they are deceptive about that too with their "never expire" claim followed with small print), it's that they didn't warn me.

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

dvlntn
Explorer C

Did the same thing here.  Why do we say they stole the points back?  Because they were earned with real credit card spend.  Over 200,000 in my case.  Southwest, as a co-branded card with Chase, is paid for those points.   It does not seem even remotely reasonable that once they have been paid for the points, that now belong to us, that they can have them back.  And without notice to top things off.  The only emails I received from SWA was either their daily junk advertising or to tell me all about why their 737Max planes are grounded.  This points expiring policy very well could be an issue that the State of California would be interested in reviewing, much like the policy on gift card expirations, which hold no validity for California consumers.  Once we have paid for the points, Southwest should have no right to take them back.  They don't own them, we do.

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

dfwskier
Aviator A

@dvlntn wrote:

Did the same thing here.  Why do we say they stole the points back?  Because they were earned with real credit card spend.  Over 200,000 in my case.  Southwest, as a co-branded card with Chase, is paid for those points.   It does not seem even remotely reasonable that once they have been paid for the points, that now belong to us, that they can have them back.  And without notice to top things off.  The only emails I received from SWA was either their daily junk advertising or to tell me all about why their 737Max planes are grounded.  This points expiring policy very well could be an issue that the State of California would be interested in reviewing, much like the policy on gift card expirations, which hold no validity for California consumers.  Once we have paid for the points, Southwest should have no right to take them back.  They don't own them, we do.


Sorry to hear that your points expired. That being said, evey airline (except Delta) has a points expiration provision in it's FF program. Some, like Spirit and Frntier, expire in a little as 6 months.

The normal is 18 months. Southwest is 24 months.

 

Yes, the Southwest language is somehwat deceptive "Points don't expire"  and then in smaller print below "as long as you have point earning activity within 24 months" 

 

Yes, it would be nice if Southwest sent a "warning" email about upcoming points epiration.

 

 This again proves that it is iportant to fully understand the rules of any program you enroll in.

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

dvlntn
Explorer C

Just because other programs have expiration dates with their points doesn't actually make it right.  And FWIW it appears those other programs actually count redeeming miles as activity, which SWA does not.   So one can earn several hundred thousand points with legitimate CC spend.  SWA gets paid real $ for those transactions.  Then when the consumer is gradually spending those points they actually expire.  They wouldn't expire if the consumer paid $ for the flight, but why would one do that when they have so many points? 

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

chgoflyer
Aviator A

@dvlntn wrote:

Just because other programs have expiration dates with their points doesn't actually make it right.  And FWIW it appears those other programs actually count redeeming miles as activity, which SWA does not.   So one can earn several hundred thousand points with legitimate CC spend.  SWA gets paid real $ for those transactions.  Then when the consumer is gradually spending those points they actually expire.  They wouldn't expire if the consumer paid $ for the flight, but why would one do that when they have so many points? 

 

Since you bring up credit card spending, it's worth pointing out that Rapid Rewards points do not expire as long as your Chase Southwest credit card account remains open. 

 

Also, keep in mind that, "right" or "wrong," all that actually matters is the Southwest Rapid Rewards terms and conditions, the legally binding agreement that governs the program. And that document includes language that says, essentially, that the points do not actually belong to you. 

 

All loyalty programs have similar language.

 

Lastly, be aware that airlines are regulated on a federal level, which generally supersedes the laws of any particular state. 

 

Pragmatically, at this point, your best bet is to send a email or written letter to the attention of Southwest CEO Gary Kelly. While customer service will not reinstate points unless you can prove that you had point earning activity within the last 6 months that wasn't credited to your account, it's been claimed by other customers that they had their points reinstated following a direct message sent to the CEO. Good luck.

 

 

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

dfwskier
Aviator A

@dvlntn wrote:

Just because other programs have expiration dates with their points doesn't actually make it right.  And FWIW it appears those other programs actually count redeeming miles as activity, which SWA does not.   So one can earn several hundred thousand points with legitimate CC spend.  SWA gets paid real $ for those transactions.  Then when the consumer is gradually spending those points they actually expire.  They wouldn't expire if the consumer paid $ for the flight, but why would one do that when they have so many points? 


The fact that almost all airlines "sunset" points after a period of inactivity says that the practice in standard in the industry. Southwest is no different than most airlines. Points remain an accounting liability to the airline as long as they are o the books. Sunetting points is no different than putting expiration dates on drink coupons - the practice limits the ongoing ccounting liability to the airline.

 

Again, the programs are called "FREQUENT flyer" programs, so somone who has not flown a paid

flight in over two years isn't exactly a "frequent" flyer.

 

Oh, and you, unfortunately, learned the answer to your question "

They wouldn't expire if the consumer paid $ for the flight, but why would one do that when they have so many points? "


the answer is to make sure your points don't expire

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

blocko
Explorer C

To avoid the loss of air miles, I just registered my debit card with Rapid Rewards Dining and found some restaurants that I can get miles for using that card at, and problem solved!  I just make sure I go out to eat once in a while at Rapid Reward eligible restaurants.  

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

dfwskier
Aviator A

@blocko wrote:

To avoid the loss of air miles, I just registered my debit card with Rapid Rewards Dining and found some restaurants that I can get miles for using that card at, and problem solved!  I just make sure I go out to eat once in a while at Rapid Reward eligible restaurants.  


Well said.

 

There are only two things to remember when it comes to keeping RR points

 

1) recognize that you WILL lose them if you don't do something to add points to your acount at least once every two years

 

2) Then do something as simple as signing up for RR dining, and then going out to have an $8 hamburger at a qualifying restaurant which adds 24 points to the RR account. 

 

People need to accept responsibility for their actions (or in this case lack of actions).

Re: SWA steals back my 14,475 points without any notice or warning!

jksobonya
Aviator A

I think the better question is: who has 50,000 - 100,000 + of RR points in their Southwest account and does not have any activity for *two entire years*? I can barely keep 10,000 in my account, I am always booking flights!

 

This is why Southwest has partner programs. There are plenty of other ways to earn points without booking a flight - Rapid Rewards Dining being one of them, Rewards for Opinions being another, and the Shopping program is yet another. 

 

It's right in the terms and conditions of Rapid Rewards that points expire after 24 months of inactivity. But of course, no one reads those ...... 

 

--Jessica